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3 Big Lessons from Interviewing John Mueller at SearchLove London – Whiteboard Friday

Posted by willcritchlow

When you’ve got one of Google’s most helpful and empathetic voices willing to answer your most pressing SEO questions, what do you ask? Will Critchlow recently had the honor of interviewing Google’s John Mueller at SearchLove London, and in this week’s edition of Whiteboard Friday he shares his best lessons from that session, covering the concept of Domain Authority, the great subdomain versus subfolder debate, and a view into the technical workings of noindex/nofollow.

Click on the whiteboard image above to open a high-resolution version in a new tab!

Video Transcription

Hi, Whiteboard Friday fans. I’m Will Critchlow from Distilled, and I found myself in Seattle, wanted to record another Whiteboard Friday video and talk through some things that I learned recently when I got to sit down with John Mueller from Google at our SearchLove London conference recently.

So I got to interview John on stage, and, as many of you may know, John is a webmaster relations guy at Google and really a point of contact for many of us in the industry when there are technical questions or questions about how Google is treating different things. If you followed some of the stuff that I’ve written and talked about in the past, you’ll know that I’ve always been a little bit suspicious of some of the official lines that come out of Google and felt like either we don’t get the full story or we haven’t been able to drill in deep enough and really figure out what’s going on.

I was under no illusions that I might be able to completely fix this this in one go, but I did want to grill John on a couple of specific things where I felt like we hadn’t maybe asked things clearly enough or got the full story. Today I wanted to run through a few things that I learned when John and I sat down together. A little side note, I found it really fascinating doing this kind of interview. I sat on stage in a kind of journalistic setting. I had never done this before. Maybe I’ll do a follow-up Whiteboard Friday one day on things I learned and how to run interviews.

1. Does Google have a “Domain Authority” concept?

But the first thing that I wanted to quiz John about was this domain authority idea. So here we are on Moz. Moz has a proprietary metric called domain authority, DA. I feel like when, as an industry, we’ve asked Google, and John in particular, about this kind of thing in the past, does Google have a concept of domain authority, it’s got bundled up with feeling like, oh, he’s had an easy way out of being able to answer and say, “No, no, that’s a proprietary Moz metric. We don’t have that.”

I felt like that had got a bit confusing, because our suspicion is that there is some kind of an authority or a trust metric that Google has and holds at a domain level. We think that’s true, but we felt like they had always been able to wriggle out of answering the question. So I said to John, “Okay, I am not asking you do you use Moz’s domain authority metric in your ranking factors. Like we know that isn’t the case. But do you have something a little bit like it?”

Yes, Google has metrics that map into similar things

John said yes. He said yes, they have metrics that, his exact quote was, “map into similar things.”My way of phrasing this was this is stuff that is at the domain level. It’s based on things like link authority, and it is something that is used to understand performance or to rank content across an entire domain. John said yes, they have something similar to that.

New content inherits those metrics

They use it in particular when they discover new content on an existing domain. New content, in some sense, can inherit some of the authority from the domain, and this is part of the reason why we figured they must have something like this, because we’ve seen identical content perform differently on different sites. We know that there’s something to this. So yes, John confirmed that until they have some of those metrics developed, when they’ve seen a bit of content for long enough, and it can have its own link metrics and usage metrics, in the intervening time up until that point it can inherit some of this stuff from the domain.

Not wholly link-based

He did also just confirm that it’s not just link-based. This is not just a domain-level PageRank type thing.

2. Subdomains versus subfolders

This led me into the second thing that I really wanted to get out of him, which was — and when I raised this, I got kind of an eye roll, “Are we really going down this rabbit hole” — the subdomain versus subfolder question. You might have seen me talk about this. You might have seen people like Rand talk about this, where we’ve seen cases and we have case studies of moving blog.example.com to example.com/blog and changing nothing else and getting an uplift.

We know something must be going on, and yet the official line out of Google has for a very long time been: “We don’t treat these things differently. There is nothing special about subfolders. We’re perfectly happy with subdomains. Do whatever is right for your business.” We’ve had this kind of back-and-forth a few times. The way I put it to John was I said, “We have seen these case studies. How would you explain this?”

They try to figure out what belongs to the site

To his credit, John said, “Yes, we’ve seen them as well.” So he said, yes, Google has also seen these things. He acknowledged this is true. He acknowledged that it happens. The way he explained it connects back into this Domain Authority thing in my mind, which is to say that the way they think about it is: Are these pages on this subdomain part of the same website as things on the main domain?

That’s kind of the main question. They try and figure out, as he put it, “what belongs to this site.” We all know of sites where subdomains are entirely different sites. If you think about a blogspot.com or a WordPress.com domain, subdomains might be owned and managed by entirely different people, and there would be no reason for that authority to pass across. But what Google is trying to do and is trying to say, “Is this subdomain part of this main site?”

Sometimes this includes subdomains and sometimes not

He said sometimes they determine that it is, and sometimes they determine that it is not. If it is part of the site, in their estimation, then they will treat it as equivalent to a subfolder. This, for me, pretty much closes this loop. I think we understand each other now, which is Google is saying, in these certain circumstances, they will be treated identically, but there are circumstances where it can be treated differently.

My recommendation stays what it’s always been, which is 100% if you’re starting from the outset, put it on a subfolder. There’s no upside to the subdomain. Why would you risk the fact that Google might treat it as a separate site? If it is currently on a subdomain, then it’s a little trickier to make that case. I would personally be arguing for the integration and for making that move.

If it’s treated as part of the site, a subdomain is equivalent to a subfolder

But unfortunately, but somewhat predictably, I couldn’t tie John down to any particular way of telling if this is the case. If your content is currently on a subdomain, there isn’t really any way of telling if Google is treating it differently, which is a shame, but it’s somewhat predictable. But at least we understand each other now, and I think we’ve kind of got to the root of the confusion. These case studies are real. This is a real thing. Certainly in certain circumstances moving from the subdomain to the subfolder can improve performance.

3. Noindex’s impact on nofollow

The third thing that I want to talk about is a little bit more geeked out and technical, and also, in some sense, it leads to some bigger picture lessons and thinking. A little while ago John kind of caught us out by talking about how if you have a page that you no index and keep it that way for a long time, that Google will eventually treat that equivalently to a no index, no follow.

In the long-run, a noindex page’s links effectively become nofollow

In other words, the links off that page, even if you’ve got it as a no index, follow, the links off that page will be effectively no followed. We found that a little bit confusing and surprising. I mean I certainly felt like I had assumed it didn’t work that way simply because they have the no index, follow directive, and the fact that that’s a thing seems to suggest that it ought to work that way.

It’s been this way for a long time

It wasn’t really so much about the specifics of this, but more the like: How did we not know this? How did this come about and so forth? John talked about how, firstly, it has been this way for a long time. I think he was making the point none of you all noticed, so how big a deal can this really be? I put it back to him that this is kind of a subtle thing and very hard to test, very hard to extract out the different confounding factors that might be going on.

I’m not surprised that, as an industry, we missed it. But the point being it’s been this way for a long time, and Google’s view and certainly John’s view was that this hadn’t been hidden from us so much as the people who knew this hadn’t realized that they needed to tell anyone. The actual engineers working on the search algorithm, they had a curse of knowledge.

The curse of knowledge: engineers didn’t realize webmasters had the wrong idea

They knew it worked this way, and they had never realized that webmasters didn’t know that or thought any differently. This was one of the things that I was kind of trying to push to John a little more was kind of saying, “More of this, please. Give us more access to the engineers. Give us more insight into their way of thinking. Get them to answer more questions, because then out of that we’ll spot the stuff that we can be like, ‘Oh, hey, that thing there, that was something I didn’t know.’ Then we can drill deeper into that.”

That led us into a little bit of a conversation about how John operates when he doesn’t know the answer, and so there were some bits and pieces that were new to me at least about how this works. John said he himself is generally not attending search quality meetings. The way he works is largely off his knowledge and knowledge base type of content, but he has access to engineers.

They’re not dedicated to the webmaster relations operation. He’s just going around the organization, finding individual Google engineers to answer these questions. It was somewhat interesting to me at least to find that out. I think hopefully, over time, we can generally push and say, “Let’s look for those engineers. John, bring them to the front whenever they want to be visible, because they’re able to answer these kinds of questions that might just be that curse of knowledge that they knew this all along and we as marketers hadn’t figured out this was how things worked.”

That was my quick run-through of some of the things that I learned when I interviewed John. We’ll link over to more resources and transcripts and so forth. But it’s been a blast. Take care.

Video transcription by Speechpad.com

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3 Ways to Persuade People Thinking about Buying from You

You shouldn’t think about growing your audience. Actually, let me rephrase that: You shouldn’t focus on growing your audience. Especially…

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How to Transform from Fan to Fanatic to Fantastic Content Creator

Building an audience involves a lot of trial and error. But those who wish to have their own audiences make…

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5 User-Generated Content Campaigns Your Brand Can Learn From

These days, shoppers are less impressed with celebrities and gurus telling them what to buy and prefer content that’s generated by their fellow consumers. A Nielsen report showed that 92 percent of consumers trust recommendations made by people they know while 70 percent believe the opinions consumers post online.

Some brands have been savvy enough to take advantage of this changing mindset and have successfully leveraged user-generated content (UGC) into their marketing campaigns.

User-generated content is essentially content that comes from customers. When customers have a positive experience with your brand, they are more inclined to tell others about it.

A ringing endorsement from a happy client is one of the fastest and cheapest ways to boost your customer base. And since the content comes from real people who have actually used the company’s products or services, consumers know that the information provided is authentic and reliable, thus improving a brand’s credibility.

There are several ways that smart brands can utilize UGC. Here’s a list of five companies highly-successful campaigns that show how to effectively leverage user-generated content in your marketing efforts.

1. Starbucks’ White Cup Contest

Starbucks hit a home run back in 2014 with its White Cup competition. The coffee giant asked their customers to doodle designs on their paper cups, take pictures, and post them on social media using the hashtag #WhiteCupContest. The best design would become the template for their limited-edition coffee cups. The contest generated around 4,000 entries in three weeks and created a lot of buzz even after it ended. When Starbucks finally unveiled the limited-edition cups, millions of customers took photos of the items and posting them on their social media accounts.

Takeaway: A contest with an interesting gift or a freebie is an effective way to interact with your target market. You can also generate revenue by turning the UGC into something you can repurpose or sell.

2. Apple #ShotOniPhone

User-generated content can solidify and expand a loyal fan base effortlessly. When Apple released the iPhone 8 and X, the company decided to take advantage of the fact that people were already using their product to take great pictures. The company’s #ShotOniPhone campaign saw Apple fans sharing the photos they took on their iPhones. Apple then showcased their favorite photos on its official Instagram account. While the campaign placed the focus on the photographers and their skill, it also emphasized their product’s features and capabilities.

Takeaway: Celebrate your loyal customers by showcasing their work in your website and social media accounts. The UGC will also drive more visitors to spend more time on your site.

3. Cast Me Marc by Marc Jacobs

Image result for cast me marc

Marc Jacobs reminded people why he’s such a trailblazer with the Cast Me Marc campaign. In 2014, the designer decided to cast models in a distinct way – by using Instagram and Twitter. People who were interested in modeling for the brand were asked to submit their photos with the #CastMeMarc hashtag. The company received 15,000 submissions within a day and 70,000 photos by the time the contest ended. The brand was also credited for starting a new movement as other fashion brands followed in its footsteps.

Takeaway: Pay attention to current trends. At the time, selfies were rapidly growing in popularity and Jacobs tapped into that phenomenon. You also shouldn’t be afraid to add your own twist to a new trend.

4. L’Oreal DermaBlend Transformations

The make-up brand placed their storyline in the hands of their loyal clients with its #DermaBlendPro campaign. L’Oreal encouraged users to share photos or videos of their makeup transformations. The company received thousands of submissions which were used in their brand story.

Takeaway: Trust your customers and include them in your campaigns. Happy customers make the best brand ambassadors.

5. Pura Vida Bracelets

UGC a good way to showcase products in real-world scenarios. Pura Vida’s colorful and unique bracelets already stand out on Facebook’s newsfeed, but when the company added photos of their customers wearing their products on their carousel ad, it provided better insight into the brand and led to a surge in conversions. It also helped that customers were taking photos of their bracelets while on the beach or traveling around the world, thereby encouraging everyone’s dream of a carefree lifestyle. The company was also started working with more artisans and small businesses around the world.

Takeaway: When your content is relatable, more shoppers will identify with your brand and hold it valuable. Transparency also attracts consumers who want to know where and how the product is made.

UGC is undoubtedly one of the best ways to show a brand’s authenticity and secure customer loyalty. So put the spotlight on your customer, and reward them to increase engagement. Shoppers are always happy to come back and talk about a brand when they feel like they’re part of the brand’s community. They’re also more willing to contribute to it and refer it to other people. 

[Featured image via Pexels.com]

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What SEOs Can Learn from AdWords – Whiteboard Friday

Posted by DiTomaso

Organic and paid search aren’t always at odds; there are times when there’s benefit in knowing how they work together. Taking the time to know the ins and outs of AdWords can improve your rankings and on-site experience. In today’s edition of Whiteboard Friday, our fabulous guest host Dana DiTomaso explains how SEOs can improve their game by taking cues from paid search in this Whiteboard Friday.

Click on the whiteboard image above to open a high-resolution version in a new tab!

Video Transcription

Hi, my name is Dana DiTomaso. I’m President and Partner at Kick Point, and one of the things that we do at Kick Point is we do both SEO and paid. One of the things that’s really useful is when SEO and paid work together. But what’s even better is when SEOs can learn from paid to make their stuff better.

One of the things that is great about AdWords or Google Ads — whenever you’re watching this, it may be called one thing or the other — is that you can learn a lot from what has a high click-through rate, what performs well in paid, and paid is way faster than waiting for Google to catch up to the awesome title tags you’ve written or the new link building that you’ve done to see how it’s going to perform. So I’m going to talk about four things today that you can learn from AdWords, and really these are easy things to get into in AdWords.

Don’t be intimidated by the interface. You can probably just get in there and look at it yourself, or talk to your AdWords person. I bet they’d be really excited that you know what a callout extension is. So we’re going to start up here.

1. Negative keywords

The first thing is negative keywords. Negative keywords, obviously really important. You don’t want to show up for things that you shouldn’t be showing up for.

Often when we need to take over an AdWords account, there aren’t a lot of negative keywords. But if it’s a well-managed account, there are probably lots of negatives that have been added there over time. What you want to look at is if there’s poor word association. So in your industry, cheap, free, jobs, and then things like reviews and coupons, if these are really popular search phrases, then maybe this is something you need to create content for or you need to think about how your service is presented in your industry.

Then what you can do to change that is to see if there’s something different that you can do to present this kind of information. What are the kinds of things your business doesn’t want? Are you definitely not saying these things in the content of your website? Or is there a way that you can present the opposite opinion to what people might be searching for, for example? So think about that from a content perspective.

2. Title tags and meta descriptions

Then the next thing are title tags and meta descriptions. Title tags and meta descriptions should never be a write it once and forget it kind of thing. If you’re an on-it sort of SEO, you probably go in every once in a while and try to tweak those title tags and meta descriptions. But the problem is that sometimes there are just some that aren’t performing. So go into Google Search Console, find the title tags that have low click-through rate and high rankings, and then think about what you can do to test out new ones.

Then run an AdWords campaign and test out those title tags in the title of the ad. Test out new ad copy — that would be your meta descriptions — and see what actually brings a higher click-through rate. Then whichever one does, ta-da, that’s your new title tags and your meta descriptions. Then add those in and then watch your click-through rate increase or decrease.

Make sure to watch those rankings, because obviously title tag changes can have an impact on your rankings. But if it’s something that’s keyword rich, that’s great. I personally like playing with meta descriptions, because I feel like meta descriptions have a bigger impact on that click-through rate than title tags do, and it’s something really important to think about how are we making this unique so people want to click on us. The very best meta description I’ve ever seen in my life was for an SEO company, and they were ranking number one.

They were obviously very confident in this ranking, because it said, “The people above me paid. The people below me aren’t as good as me. Hire me for your SEO.” I’m like, “That’s a good meta description.” So what can you do to bring in especially that brand voice and your personality into those titles, into those meta descriptions and test it out with ads first and see what’s going to resonate with your audience. Don’t just think about click-through rate for these ads.

Make sure that you’re thinking about conversion rate. If you have a really long sales cycle, make sure those leads that you’re getting are good, because what you don’t want to have happen is have an ad that people click on like crazy, they convert like crazy, and then the customers are just a total trash fire. You really want to make sure you’re driving valuable business through this kind of testing. So this might be a bit more of a longer-term piece for you.

3. Word combinations

The third thing you can look at are word combinations.

So if you’re not super familiar with AdWords, you may not be familiar with the idea of broad match modifier. So in AdWords we have broad phrases that you can search for, recipes, for example, and then anything related to the word “recipe” will show up. But you could put in a phrase in quotes. You could say “chili recipes.” Then if they say, “I would like a chili recipe,” it would come up.

If it says “chili crockpot recipes,” it would not come up. Now if you had + chili + recipes, then anything with the phrase “chili recipes” would come up, which can be really useful. If you have a lot of different keyword combinations and you don’t have time for that, you can use broad match modifier to capture a lot of them. But then you have to have a good negative keyword list, speaking as an AdWords person for a second.

Now one of the things that can really come out of broad match modifier are a lot of great, new content ideas. If you look at the keywords that people had impressions from or clicks from as a result of these broad match modifier keywords, you can find the strangest phrasing that people come up with. There are lots of crazy things that people type into Google. We all know this, especially if it’s voice search and it’s obviously voice search.

One of the fun things to do is look and see if anybody has “okay Google” and then the search phrase, because they said “okay Google” twice and then Google searched “okay Google” plus the phrase. That’s always fun to pick up. But you can also pick up lots of different content ideas, and this can help you modify poorly performing content for example. Maybe you’re just not saying the thing in the way in which your audience is saying it.

AdWords gives you totally accurate data on what your customers are thinking and feeling and saying and searching. So why not use that kind of data? So definitely check out broad match modifier stuff and see what you can do to make that better.

4. Extensions

Then the fourth thing is extensions. So extensions are those little snippets that can show up under an ad.

You should always have all of the extensions loaded in, and then maybe Google picks some, maybe they won’t, but at least they’re there as an option. Now one thing that’s great are callout extensions. Those are the little site links that are like free trial, and people click on those, or find out more information or menu or whatever it might be. Now testing language in those callout extensions can help you with your call-to-action buttons.

Especially if you’re thinking about things like people want to download a white paper, well, what’s the best way to phrase that? What do you want to say for things like a submit button for your newsletter or for a contact form? Those little, tiny pieces, that are called micro-copy, what can you do by taking your highest performing callout extensions and then using those as your call-to-action copy on your website?

This is really going to improve your lead click-through rate. You’re going to improve the way people feel about you, and you’re going to have that really nice consistency between the language that you see in your advertising and the language that you have on your website, because one thing you really want to avoid as an SEO is to get into that silo where this is SEO and this is AdWords and the two of you aren’t talking to each other at all and the copy just feels completely disjointed between the paid side and the organic side.

It should all be working together. So by taking the time to understand AdWords a little bit, getting to know it, getting to know what you can do with it, and then using some of that information in your SEO work, you can improve your on-site experience as well as rankings, and your paid person is probably going to appreciate that you talked to them for a little bit.

Thanks.

Video transcription by Speechpad.com

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Happy Thanksgiving from Copyblogger!

Thursday is Thanksgiving in the U.S.! If you’re taking some time off, have a happy and safe holiday — and…

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How to Leverage Testimonials From Social Media to Make More Sales

Getting new customers to buy from you is a challenge you’ll likely have to deal with for as long as you own your business. However, a good testimonial goes a long way in swaying a person’s opinion about a product. People feel more confident buying from a brand if they see that other consumers purchased similar items and were satisfied with them.

Research by Nielsen showed that 92 percent of consumers will trust a recommendation given by a peer and that 70 percent of shoppers trust a recommendation or review even if it’s from a stranger. Amazon and eBay understand this phenomenon well. The two online retailers have built their entire platform around customer testimonials and reviews.

Why are Testimonials Effective

The smart marketer understands that the most effective sales messages come from happy customers. Here’s why:

Provides Social Proof

Every shopper is a skeptic. They wonder whether your product really works or if other companies have already worked with you. Testimonials let satisfied customers answer the shopper’s questions. They have less doubt when they know that other people enjoyed doing business with you. This is “social proof” and it’s very powerful. It’s why advertisers use messages like “9 out of 10 doctors trust this brand.”

Connects With Customers Emotionally

Testimonials also help connect you with your target market on an emotional level. This is crucial as studies have shown that most shoppers make buying decisions based on their feelings. If a review or testimonial made a prospective client laugh or teary-eyed, you can bet they will remember that brand and be more open to buying it.

Tells a Good Story 

Testimonials are essentially stories, with the customer as the main character; the search for what they want or need is the conflict and your product or service as the resolution. A well-written review or testimonial is like a story with a happy ending; people really love happy endings. 

5 Ways to Leverage Testimonials From Social Media

1. Highlight Positive Testimonials on Your Website

Put your testimonials to good use by highlighting them on your website’s service or product pages. They can help create leads and drive conversions. Prospective buyers will be more amenable to making a purchase if they see testimonials from satisfied clients while browsing through your products.

You can actually integrate reviews and testimonials on any page, like the home page, About and Contact pages. But make sure that the testimonial you’ll feature is relevant. For instance, a testimonial applauding your team is better suited in the About page than the landing page.

2. Incorporate Testimonials into Your Blog

Every visitor to your blog is a prospective customer. Incorporating testimonials within the content can capture the reader’s interest. However, they should be placed where they won’t detract from what the visitor is reading, like in the sidebar. In their own way, testimonials also add content to your site. They also make your brand appear more trustworthy and valuable to first-time site visitors.

3. Utilize a Variety of Formats

There’s no law stating that testimonials should only be written. Audio or video testimonials are considered to be more effective since they feel more personal and real.

Don’t be afraid of asking a loyal and satisfied customer to record a review or shoot a small video. You can even join them and make it appear like an interview. But regardless of whether it’s a sound clip or video, make sure you coordinate with the client so they know what to expect and prepare accordingly. The testimonial should also be short and concise.

4. Add them to Printed Material

Print marketing still carries a lot of punch today, and one study explains that this is because printed material feels “more real to the brain.” Handling something solid, like flyers or brochures, involve deeper emotional processing, which is vital for brand associations. Including client testimonials to your print marketing materials will add more weight to them.

5. Have a Testimonial Page

Even if you have included testimonials on your website, blog, and social media posts, it’s still a good idea to have a separate testimonials page where you can place the most positive reviews. Prospective clients will see these are further evidence that they are making the right choice in choosing you.

Testimonials are a powerful marketing tool that you should not be afraid to use. Ask your customers to vouch for you. Satisfied clients are only too happy to provide a good word for a brand that they like. Integrate these testimonials in your different marketing strategies so more people will see why they should choose your brand.

[Featured image via Pixabay]

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New report from MarTech Today: Enterprise Customer Data Platforms: A Marketer’s Guide

Learn everything you need to know about enterprise customer data platforms.



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Google May Remove Sites Blocking Users Over GDPR From Search?

As you know, when GDPR, the European law about data privacy regulations across the web, went live – some sites simply decided to block any European visitor from visiting their web site. This results in some searchers seeing content from these sites but when clicking over to the web site being told by the web site that they cannot view the content because of GDPR.


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What’s the One Skill that Separates Well-Paid Freelance Writers from Those Who Struggle?

Everyone loves the part of the hero’s journey where our protagonist accepts the “call to adventure” and “crosses the threshold”…

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